Black Chinned Hummer?? Is that possible??

[suesann]

I think I may have a Black-chinned hummingbird at my feeder... is that possible? I live in Abbotsford... can't write a long post... have to get out and defrost the feeder every 30 minutes!! I'll be off to the bird store in town as soon as they open for another feeder! I have only noticed this new hummer since yesterday when the cold snap arrived. He looks quite different to the Anna's. I'd really appreciate any theories... Thanks!

Susan Raw

[Gord]

Susan, given that you know what an Anna's looks like and that any other hummer, even a Rufous, in the middle of December is exciting stuff!

If you have a green one but not an Anna's it could be anything! When you get a chance, let us know what you're seeing and if possible, snap away with your camera!

Im excited to hear more! ;D

[suesann]

Hi Gord, I have managed to get these pictures of the new hummer I can't identify. Do they help?

Susan Raw

[tmanson]

Hi Susan: Thanks for posting your pictures of your new hummingbird. I think you still have an adult male Anna's. The gorget, which, of course, illuminates in direct light, seems to extend up onto the crown, at least, in one of your front-on pictures.
There is no white collar separting the gorget from the underparts of this bird, as you would expect in Black-chinned. Also the bill looks relatively straight, as opposed to a down curve that you might expect to see in a Black-chinned.
There are other distinguishing features like size, and shape of head. the fact that the tail seems to be still in hovering photos, shape, and extension of tail, which are harder to see in your pics. As always, I could be wrong, but that's my opinion, anyway.
It would be great if you could get a picture that illuminates the gorget. Thanks for sharing. Thor

Thor Manson
Hope, B.C.

Thor Manson
Hope, B.C.

[Deleted]

Susan, thanks for posting your photos. I agree with Thor, first that you probably have a male Anna's and second that I, too, could be wrong.

The photos seem to show the chunky "neckless" shape typical of a Calypte genus (includes Anna's and Costa's) hummer. The tail and back look right for an Anna's. The gorget looks "swept-back" at the lower corners, typical of Anna's but not Black-chinned. But these are all impressions. Almost anything is possible.

Can you give us any thoughts on how this one differs from your other hummers? All our comments are tentative and not conclusive, and anything you can add will be very helpful.

Do you mind telling us which area in Abbotsford you live? We live near Marshall Road between Bakerview and North Poplar schools. We have an immature male Anna's coming to our feeder, but not consistently. I would love to know if he's also going to other feeders in this area.

Thanks,

Stan Olson
Abbotsford

[suesann]

Thanks Thor and Stan for your replies. I will try again tomorrow to get some clearer pictures. These were taken through a double glass door while I was balancing on a cross-training machine! Anyway, I know for sure that I have a small female Anna's and what I think may be a small juvenile male Anna's--he has the coloring of the male but it is not very vivid and he is much smaller than the 3rd regular visitor I have who is a magnificent large male with beautifully vivid colors. The newcomer, has become the main visitor to the feeder over the past 2 days. He out-visits the others by a ratio of 2 to 1. He is at the feeder every 15 minutes or so. He seems healthy and robust and is about the same size as the large male Anna's who regularly visits, but his coloring is quite different. His head is most definitely black in color and his coloring is more purple and subtle than the brighter 'red' on the male Anna's I have seen. They have all been around today and have kept me very busy keeping their feeders defrosted !! Anyway, thanks for the input and I will endeavor to get some pictures of this little guy from different angles and post them here to see what you make of them... Thanks.
Oh, Stan, we live just off Marshall and McKenzie so I think that we probably have different birds at our feeders?? I have no idea how far they would search for food.
Anyway, thanks again.. I'll update with more pictures a.s.a.p.

Susan Raw

[Deleted]

I'm still puzzling over Susan's "different" hummer.

Dare I suggest the dreaded "H" word? Is this a possible Anna's x Black-chinned hybrid? I really don't know what I'm talking about, but it makes some sense to me. A Field Guide to Hummingbirds of North America (The Peterson's Guide Series) includes this species combination as one occurring hybrid, with photos of head and tail of one example.

Hummingbirds of North America : the Photographic Guide says that hybrids occur more frequently among hummers than many other groups of birds, and hybrids of Anna's may be among the more frequent ones, although hybrids are always relatively rare. Hybrids may resemble one or other parent more than the other, or may appear quite different. Also, a hybrid doesn't necessarily show a throat colour intermediate between its two parents' normal colours, but may show an unexpected different throat colour.

From what I remember from similar discussions, a hybrid should show at least some features from each parent, however.

The photos posted so far show a bird with some features that appear to be those of Anna's, from my limited experience. But I note from the Photographic Guide mentioned above that Black-chinned males show the inner 6 primaries relatively narrower than the outer 4, which seems to me to show in the wing in the third photo of the five posted by Susan on Dec. 14, while Anna's show all primaries evenly broad.

So while I have no experience with Black-chinned other than seeing one years ago at Inkaneep Provincial Park north of Oliver, BC, and seeing a few in Arizona in August, 2007, maybe there are some characteristics of that species in this bird also.

On the other hand, I'm hesitant to drag the "hybrid" issue into this because there's always the nagging feeling that maybe it's just a cop-out when faced with a difficult ID. From the range maps in the Guide mentioned above, the normal ranges of Anna's and Black-chinned don't come anywhere near each other this side of central California, except possibly a small area near Portland Oregon. The likelihood of a hybrid individual from there arriving here in winter seems remote. Normally Anna's don't do long distance migration, and Black-chinned should be in Mexico for the winter.

But whatever it is, it's here. Always something new to learn. What do others think about this?

Susan, you are about 3 km from us, so I agree it's unlikely that the same Anna's is coming to your feeders and mine. Ours is still doing fine, so far.

Stan

[suesann]

Well, My husband is convinced that I have posted pictures here of 2 entirely different birds! Having watched my hummers over the past 2 days I think he may be right ( I suppose he was eventually going to be right about something!! LOL). Anyway, I am still unsure about the identity of the hummer I photographed facing the camera. As I have some free time today I will try to get another picture of it from a different angle. However, I have noticed that he appears to have very dark wings if that helps at all and his head is definitely black with the only indication of color I have seen being on his chest/chin, almost like a bib... I have to confess I have absolutely no knowledge of the subtle differences you all speak so expertly about (but am enjoying learning) I could be wrong, I am a complete amateur but I really do 'feel' he is not an Anna's.... Will hopefully post some more photos later today...

Thanks for the interest and info...

Susan

[suesann]

Ok... I tried to get some better pictures of my mystery hummer but these are the best I could get today. The feeders have been pretty busy today.







He is definitely completely different to the male Anna's I also have visiting.... here is a picture of him...




Do these pictures help positively identify this little guy??

Thanks.... Hope everyones is surviving the snow!

Susan

[neepgrin]

I have included shots of a male black chinned hummer that i took last year in Barriere, BC. The shots show the white collar that Thor describes. Hope these may help....





linda