Fox Sparrow - Sooty?

[dpeppar]

Could someone confirm that this is a Fox Sp of the Sooty (Pacific) variety?

Pic take this morning at my house.



Thanks

DaveP

[Harrier]

Confirmed.

[rickwright]

I'd be interested in learning more about this identification. On a bird like this, with a relatively bright bill and no pronounced breast "shield," how can you determine confidently that it's of the Sooty group without seeing the flank?

[dpeppar]

Rick, I used the Sibley (Full size version). Did not see the back.

DaveP

[Chris]

I know very little about Fox Sparrows sub species but just by looking at my field guide there are four sub species. The spots on the bird in Dave's photo are brown. The only sub species from the field guide I have, that are brown is the Sooty. Rick, besides Sooty what other sub species could it be? The one listed in the field guide are slate coloured, sooty, thick-billed and Red (Taiga). I guess this is a good opportunity for me to learn about the different sub species of Fox Sparrows.

[rickwright]

Eleven of the eighteen or nineteen currently recognized Fox Sparrow subspecies occur in British Columbia. I used to think that identification to subspecies group was relatively straightforward, but then I moved here.... An afternoon in the museum convinced me that the distinctions between certain subspecies of Sooty and certain subspecies of Slate-colored are actually much trickier than I'd believed. I wouldn't dispute that the individual in the single photograph here is a Sooty; I'm just interested in how that determination is made on a bird so neatly and relatively sparsely marked beneath. As a quick trick in the field, I've been using the flank pattern to identify "obvious" Sooties: it seems that birds with strongly developed breast shields also have solid dark brown flanks. Then there are birds--I saw one a few days ago in Delta--with fine, blackish markings beneath, streaked flanks, and relatively gray heads. Once I would automatically have called such individuals Slate-coloreds, but now I'm not sure it's so easy. I'll have to dig up my museum notes before I say anything about precisely which subspecies might be involved.

[Chris]

Wow, I had no idea that there were that many sub species of Fox Sparrows and that many alone in B.C.! Sibley's only illustrates four and only two are located in B.C. this time of year.

Thanks for the info

[oldfulica]

Feb 27, 2011 21:40:10 GMT -8 rickwright said:

Eleven of the eighteen or nineteen currently recognized Fox Sparrow subspecies occur in British Columbia. I used to think that identification to subspecies group was relatively straightforward, but then I moved here.... An afternoon in the museum convinced me that the distinctions between certain subspecies of Sooty and certain subspecies of Slate-colored are actually much trickier than I'd believed. I wouldn't dispute that the individual in the single photograph here is a Sooty; I'm just interested in how that determination is made on a bird so neatly and relatively sparsely marked beneath. As a quick trick in the field, I've been using the flank pattern to identify "obvious" Sooties: it seems that birds with strongly developed breast shields also have solid dark brown flanks. Then there are birds--I saw one a few days ago in Delta--with fine, blackish markings beneath, streaked flanks, and relatively gray heads. Once I would automatically have called such individuals Slate-coloreds, but now I'm not sure it's so easy. I'll have to dig up my museum notes before I say anything about precisely which subspecies might be involved.

Hi Rick
You might try derrick mathews to get into some bird banding Fox Sparrows. here is his website

www.birdvancouver.com/february.html

He may be away now but you can get his contact info here.

[rickwright]

Thanks, Len! I'll talk to Derrick.

[Gord]

The bill looks to me ok and if someone said it was attached to a sooty I would not be surprised. Otherwise, outside of sooty being a safe assumption, certainly could be another subspecies or subspecies within a group.

Slate-coloured do occur here. Ive only seen one in the winter but they breed on Cheam Mountain annually. Their song is different and always catches my ear each early summer when Im up there.

[oldfulica]

No problem Rick. Your comments on subspecies has got me checking my Merlins and Fox Sparrows. I really have never paid attention to this before but it is interesting.