Western Painted Turtles

[murraybrown]

Hi all, there is a research group who are interested in the presence of Painted Turtles in the Fraser Valley. They are a Blue-listed species and face extirpation in the heavily populated areas of the valley.

I was able to photograph 3 of them in Cheam Lake about a week ago.
At least 2 of them were Painted but I'm not sure about the third one.

Much more common are the Red-eared Sliders that were sold in the pet shops. Many of these were released into the ponds and appear quite similar. They out-compete and even prey on the young Painted's.

If you can get photographs of the real deal, please post your info here.

Thanks, Murray

[Chris]

Murray good information to know. I'll be on the lookout. One question I have is how does one tell the difference between a Western Painted Turtle and a Red-eared Slider.

[murraybrown]

Hi Chris, if I knew how, I would post a link that shows the various species of turtle we might encounter. But in the meantime if you Google the name of either species you will find out what you need to know.
In a nutshell, the slider has a very distinct red mark on the skin on the side of the head and upper neck (hence the name) and the Painted never does. Instead it has various patterns of yellow against the dark background colour. However, it's worth noting that in breeding season the Painted can show a lot of orange and red around the edges and bottom of the shell which can temporarily confuse one.

Although the field guides don't usually tell you, for me the first clue is how shiny the carapace (upper shell) is on a Painted Turtle. Even when bone dry, the shine is the first good clue. As far as I know, no other species has this characteristic.

Good hunting and I look forward to hearing how you do.

Murray

[deb&tony]

Hi Murray and Chris,
I came across this website:

depts.washington.edu/natmap/facts/painted_turtle_vs_red-eared_slider.html

We'll keep an eye out.

deb

[Dave]

Thanks for the link. Always something to learn! I will keep my eyes open for Western Painted.

[Gord]

Murray, very interested to have heard about your sighting! Great work. I have not yet been able to spot one and even a survey team checked the park a couple years ago to find one. Ive always hoped that there were some there.

Ill keep my eyes open when Im out there in reptile friendly weather (tough to come by of late). Thanks for the good ID tips as well. I think you meant that a Red-eared Slider can get a little brighter in the breeding season but Im not that up on the turtles yet.

[murraybrown]

Actually Gord, both species tend to get much brighter at that time.

[butterfly]

There are quite a few Painted Turtles at Sardis Park. It is easy to view them there as well. Here is a link to some photos that we took in April. The Turtles are at the bottom of the page, when you see them together, it helps to see the difference. The domed shell of the Red-eared Slider is far more pronounced than the Painted Turtle's flater shell. The Red-eared Slider has a red ear, the Painted Turtle does not. The Red-eared Slider is yellow on the underside and the Painted Turtle is red. That is more or less a simplified way for us to tell, don't know how accurate that is.
www.butterflyonmyshoulder.ca/Journal/2011/04_11/04_11-12s.htm

[martin]

May 1, 2011 10:07:06 GMT -8 murraybrown said:

Hi all, there is a research group who are interested in the presence of Painted Turtles in the Fraser Valley. They are a Blue-listed species and face extirpation in the heavily populated areas of the valley.

I was able to photograph 3 of them in Cheam Lake about a week ago.
At least 2 of them were Painted but I'm not sure about the third one.

Much more common are the Red-eared Sliders that were sold in the pet shops. Many of these were released into the ponds and appear quite similar. They out-compete and even prey on the young Painted's.

If you can get photographs of the real deal, please post your info here.

Thanks, Murray

Hey Murray, I had to go through a few photos but this is from Cheam Wetlands- Red-eared Slider (March 27, 2011)

[murraybrown]

Thanks Martin and Joanne. Those are excellent photographs and I will be sending them along to the "Turtle People"

Joanne, those side-by-side shots are just about as good as they get!

[butterfly]

Thanks Murray.

[davidandkaren]

We have lots of good photos of the resident turtles of Jerry Sulina Park in Maple Ridge. However I checked when this thread was first posted and it appears that they are all Red-eared Sliders

[Gord]

Murray, I got these photos in mid-May at Cheam Lake.

One is a Red-eared Slider but what about the other one? It seems really dark pigmented. The shell shape seems different. Thoughts?

I was surprised (but delighted!) when I heard you saw some Painted Turtles at Cheam Lake. I understood that a survey team that went there a couple summers ago did not detect them.

[murraybrown]

Gord, I agree that the smaller one looks different, but not quite right for Painted I don't think. The Painted's that I saw were brighter both on the neck and on the shell. Also as you indicated , a different shaped carapace.

I have a feeling that the smaller one may be a Western Pond turtle which I think is even more rare than the Painted. They are very drab overall.

A friend recently sent me a picture from a pond somewhere in the Vancouver area (maybe Jericho) that I'm quite sure was a Pond Turtle.

It will be interesting to hear from the experts.

[Deleted]

I'm no expert, but I think it's important to say that any possible Western Pond Turtle sighting should be carefully documented, as this species (the subspecies applicable in the Pacific Northwest is the Northern Pacific Pond Turtle) is considered extirpated in BC. According to the most recent handbook on reptiles from the RBCM, Amphibians and Reptiles of British Columbia, by Matsuda, Green and Gregory, 2006, it has been collected only twice in BC, in 1933 and 1936, and was last reported seen in BC in 1966.

According to the Reptiles of BC website, from Thompson Rivers University, where there are reptile specialists, www.bcreptiles.ca/turtles/westernpond.htm
this species has not been seen in BC since 1959 [presumably a verified sighting].

Anything can happen, but be aware of the significance and document as well as you can. Turtle ID can be tricky.

As with the sliders, which to my knowledge have never been proven to breed here, but are only replenished by pet store turtles that people release, there is the possibility of Pond Turtle releases, and some biologists apparently even doubt that Pond Turtles ever existed naturally in BC apart from releases. But I'm no expert on turtles so I could be out of date on what's going on. There may apparently be some efforts to reintroduce pond turtles in the US Pacific NW, where this subspecies is also in trouble, and possibly even here in SW BC.

I don't know. Anyone have more info?

Stan