Calling all Gull experts

[Dave]

My brother sent me this photo of a gull he photographed along the coast in Northern China...he is wondering if any of you can give some insight to what it is.

Here are his comments

There's a gull here and we were trying so hard to make it a Slaty-backed as they do winter right in our area. On some pictures the legs lok pinkish but on others they look yellowish. Dave, can you pass this on to whoever is the gull expert on your web site? Other gulls in this area that are close to this one are: Herring Gull, Vega Gull, Black-tailed Gull, and Mew Gull.

Here is the photo



I am leaving tomorrow morning on a trip south, but he will be checking this site and ready your comments.

Dave

[Gord]

Ugh. Im by no means near an expert on gulls in my backyard, never mind ones on the other side of the world who, aside from the 'common ones' get their own array of possible rarities (their lesser black-backed gulls, slaty-backed gulls etc).

For fun, Ill share what I know. He's right on the slaty-backs, they do winter there, but I agree, it's not one (coming from a guy who's only seen one...)

It does have yellowish legs from what I can see. The back isnt black enough for a slaty-back even though the head streaking is a little promising (a bit of a 'frown' there?)

The Vega ssp of the herring gull (only studied in books as well as a possible Jason and I saw years ago) might be more promising but the possible yellow legs throws me off. Mew gulls have yellow legs, but this guy's proportions (pretty much all of them!) and colouring are not right unless regional variation, (which is common among bird species even in a relatively small area) comes into play.

Legs aside, Id say vega herring gull? I did a search on google images and looks promising.

Look forward to hearing what it turns out to be.

[Deleted]

Hi, all.

After looking at hundreds of Glaucous-winged Gulls along the Harrison River on the Harrison count today, this seems like an interesting topic to dig into.

I am definitely not the gull expert on this or any web site, but since no one else is replying, I'll make a couple of suggestions.

First, I'm confident you can eliminate Mew Gull, since the head shape, bill shape and body shape (wing length) are not right.

After this it gets more complex and my suggestions are only speculation based on looking at guides.

I think you can eliminate Black-tailed Gull (with which I have no experience), since the tail is partially visible below the primaries and it seems to be all white, not black with a narrow white border as on Black-tailed Gull.

Shapes are more likely to be accurately reproduced than colours in photos, so although it looks to me like the legs are yellow, this may not be the case. If they are yellow, this should eliminate Herring Gull and perhaps Slaty-backed, but not necessarily Vega. But you state that the legs look pinkish in other photos. So nothing is certain here. Leg colour is one of the more variable characteristics in gulls anyway.

If the mantle colour is accurately shown in the photo, then I think it's too light for Slaty-backed but not for Herring or Vega. But again, colours may not be what they appear in photos.

I have never seen Slaty-backed Gull (not that I haven't tried) but apart from the mantle colour seeming too light, the legs seem too long and thin. Other characteristics seem okay -- head shape, bill shape and size, amount of streaking on head and neck, eye colour.

Looking at descriptions for Vega Gull (with which I also have no experience), the bill seems too thin and straight (should be thick with a pronounced angle at the gonys), and the markings on the head and neck too light.

But I'm over my depth here.

What do others think?

Stan

[Deleted]

Oh, I see Gord just posted a reply since I started working on this. I pretty much agree, Vega seems to me like the most promising, although there are some inconsistencies, as I noted.

Discussions like this are a great opportunity to learn, especially for those doing the posting.

Stan

[lynnmi]

While the mantel appears too light to belong to a Slaty-backed Gull, it looks too dark for Vega Gull. Also, the eye of the Slaty-backed Gull is a very noticable pale straw colour and it is not all that evident in the photo. Both species are found in the northern parts of Asia. However, Slaty-backed Gull hybridizes with Glaucous-winged Gull in that part of the world as per Olsen and Malling's Gulls of North America, Europe, and Asia and that may also be a possibility.

Lynn

[Gord]

I think a hybrid is a strong possibility too. Maybe why the legs are not pink or yellow but tough to determine? The head streaking has a good hint of slaty-backed but is possibly on the light side. With the strong black wingtips, what other species (besides basically all of them?) with black wingtips could it be? It might be an overgeneralization, but I often consider that hybrids will usually show a few traits from both sides so if a GWGU (grey wingtips) and a WEGU (black wingtips) hybridized, jet black wingtips or grey wing-tips would not be possible; it will be something inbetween. Does anyone have more info/thoughts on this as this idea comes only from what Ive observed in our gulls and waterfowl hybrids.

This is indeed a great topic for learning!